Curse

strcpy · Apr 30, 2007, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Post my problems - ok, I'm averaging 10-15k an hour just merching from HM dead sword runs. Umm, oops, I suppose that is not really a problem. About the same as before, once I ever bother the sell some higher gold items even better than before even if the bottom drops out of their cost WAY more than it has.

What is your idea of a "whole day" - even on normal mode I make well over what you posted in an hour and my 130hp dervish isn't anywhere close to very efficient. I'm not sure if I'm better off playing my 55 monk to there are keep on keeping on with the 130 dervish, right now just staying with the dervish until cupcakes stop dropping.

Can't say I'm happy with the update, the vast majority of my farming spots no longer work, I have always mostly done "casual" farming with non prot spirit farming where merching stuff is the goal. However this is one of the cases it increased the overall output of gold - though I expect the level of the spirits to get a buff in HM when they can do so (no idea how hard that is to code). Even then, soloing the mobs in normal mode is quite easy and gives good drops - even for a merch only farmer.

evil joo · Apr 30, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

/signed

Heroes Ascent is soOOo sad now so I decided to solo UW during the weekend with my W/RT.

Anyways, I did 6 straight runs (wasted 6k and a few hours), and not one ecto dropped~

/shootself (PvP + PvE is dying)

MSecorsky · Apr 30, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51

One thing ANet excels at is leaving open the door to the whine cellar.

Calen The Civl · Apr 30, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Just sounds like a streak of bad luck. I didnt know just a 1-2 dead swords was lucky for an hour's farmer. I used get 3-5 swords an hour when I farmed the slaves. Not all were maxed but still sold for a nice amount at the merchants.

daraaksii · Apr 30, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

/notsigned.

I'm still getting 500gp-4k from my farming run. This is a nice update.

Evilsod · Apr 30, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by daraaksii

/notsigned.

I'm still getting 500gp-4k from my farming run. This is a nice update.

How much did Anet pay you to say that?

Ork Pride · Apr 30, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by daraaksii

/notsigned.

I'm still getting 500gp-4k from my farming run. This is a nice update.

Tell us how you farm, where you farm, what you farm. Any kind of proof besides words. Otherwise, you probably are lieing.

Does-it-Matter · Apr 30, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Gold Pieces are not essential.

Everything in this game that your character "needs" (Armor, weapons, skills (prophecies only), etc.) is available for free. Collectors. Yes, you probably don't like the skins, but it won't cost you a GP. (Note: Runes/Insignias are optional, it's been proven. They're easy enough to find while you just go through the campaign, so it's not like I'm saying "don't use them.")

You don't need to farm to play this game. ANet doesn't need to provide you with areas to farm, or systems that allow you to farm, so you can play the game. Vanity doesn't make you a better player.

Just playing the game normally, you will easily garner over 30k per character. That's more than enough to load up on runes/insignias and a few elites. (And if you have Nightfall, you have access to the reseting Buried Treasure chests. This can translate into 15k per character plus a lot of mods and max weapons, per month.)

Farming is a choice you make, and it shouldn't be "entirely" easy, either. Gaile has said (paraphrasing) that while farmers should earn a larger percentage than full-party groups, they shouldn't earn 8x the amount. That's how loot scaling is working. The "rare" stuff that people desire are unaffected, and the "merchant farming" stuff is now scaled.

Prices will come down, simply by people not having enough to meet such wildly exaggerated items. (With ANet maxing out Gold Transfer at 100k, do you think they intended items to go for what equates to millions of gold?)

As with every update: Give it time.

Alas Poor Yorick · Apr 30, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

You are almost right - almost everything we need we can get for free(except runes which are rising in price - but i suppose we can made do without most of them)

But the funny thing about games is that no one plays for what they need! They play to have fun. And if your resources limit you to what you need, it stops being fun.

No, I don't think everyone needs to be handed everything either. Part of the fun is to have difficult to get items that take a long time to earn. There should be various rare and very rare items in this game or there is nothing to work for. But you should have the possibility of being able to afford one or two of those in a reasonable amount of time. Balancing rewards and limits is what makes a game fun. Right now the rewards for the average player have been nerfed and, if the rare items are going to drop in price to match that, it will take a long time. In the mean time, because the balance is off, a lot of people just aren't finding this game fun.

People can call others others for whiners - great, they may be right. You win the argument. But those who are "whining" are the ones who will wind up quitting the game and not buying new games. In the end, you can not make every one happy about everything. But you do have to make it enjoyable for the maximum number of people you can or the franchise ceases to exist.

G_MAGNUS · Apr 30, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by daraaksii

/notsigned.

I'm still getting 500gp-4k from my farming run. This is a nice update.

Same here with quick farming (trolls/vermin/djinn etc). I also do UW and though I have seen a reduction in gold drop (about 50-75% as before), I'm still getting the same average in ecto as well as gold weapon drop, which is the main reason I do UW anyways.

In my opinion, its the areas that had high gold yield that were affected the most, but all you have to do is adjust your farming area. As for the dead sword, I agree that you might be on a bad luck streak on that particular drop. Friends & guildies who farm there on a regular basis before & after the changes haven't seen much of a difference either. It still takes them anywhere between 8 & 20 runs for the drop.

Levi Garett · Apr 30, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

You can still make tons of gold merching items. Just need to find the right spot...

So your cookie cutter farm spot isn't cutting it? Try the farming sub-forum. Lots more juicy cookie cutter spots there for people that can't think outside the box.

Evilsod · Apr 30, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

Prices will come down, simply by people not having enough to meet such wildly exaggerated items. (With ANet maxing out Gold Transfer at 100k, do you think they intended items to go for what equates to millions of gold?)

The HoH Chest and Limited Edition/Event Reward Minipets.

They created the economy knowing EXACTLY how prizes were going to be.

strcpy · Apr 30, 2007, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by G_MAGNUS

In my opinion, its the areas that had high gold yield that were affected the most, but all you have to do is adjust your farming area. As for the dead sword, I agree that you might be on a bad luck streak on that particular drop. Friends & guildies who farm there on a regular basis before & after the changes haven't seen much of a difference either. It still takes them anywhere between 8 & 20 runs for the drop.

Yep, right there is it. Places that I farmed for gold items hasn't changed a bit, in fact since I no longer have to worry about anti-farming code or scatter it is even better than before. Places I farmed for whites are all gone, I had to find new areas and new builds to do so.

as I said earlier, Dead sword farming run in HM takes me around 20 minutes-30 minutes to fill my inventory, makes about 4-8k a run unless I get a real good drop, when I get my 55 monk there instead of my 130hp dervish it should go faster. In hard mode hulking stone elementals, juvenile termites, and minotaurs outside of ice tooth cave are getting a little less than that - I use a 55 monk, 55 necro, or a130hp dervish - that's more than the old typical farming for gold and white items to merch.

If you farm for ectos and such it drops in the *exact* same fashion it did before and if you use one of the builds for HM it drops more often. That means you may get a few a run for a while, then go a few runs without one.

At some point these people will try one of the newer farming methods and get lucky on their first run or two, think it is the greatest thing ever, and quit complaining. They go no further than first impressions, when they get one that has a great first or second run then they will have a "good" farming spot.

Abarra · May 01, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

yup a 55 monk and a 130hp dervish they're the sort of characters a casual player is going to have aren't they?

The casual player can't make enough money to kit one out and this loot scaling was supposedly aimed at the casual player

so now the casual player has to make a farming character, kit them out, finish the game and farm in hard mode

not casual and certainly not fun. All the people that seem to be happy with this update are the hardcore farmers that can just switch to hardmode and milk it. The rich stay rich and the poor get poorer.

strcpy · May 01, 2007, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Can not kit out a 130hp dervish? If you can not get that much money then you, frankly, are a complete idiot and are not going to be able to farm *anything*.

Current trader prices for what I started with (I actually logged into the game to check prices as of april 30'th 11:11pm eastern time):
lowest level armor: total 240g
8 tanned hides - 140g
5 pieces - 100g
runes: total 1150
sup scythe - 600g
sup earth - 100g
sup myst - 250
sup wind - 100g
sup earth - 100g

8 skills: 8 plat (worst case scenario), technically there are only six that are required - most things if you simply swing you scythe you will kill them, but I'll assume that two attack skills are "core".

so, the base needed is a grand total of 9390g - so lets say ten plat. You do not need radiants and as long as your scythe is max damage and doesn't have a +hp mod your good (quite a few easily attainable collectors scythes or I was using a drop).

With this it is pretty easy to get into the 10gp/hour farming - from there the stuff to make it easier (radiant insignias and +20%enchant scythe, a few more skills for variety) is trivial. Even then you are looking at around 15 more plat to fully deck one out. From there you can easily afford a 55 monk.

Sell two rubies you get from quests, open four or five no-key chests and you have MORE than enough for a 130hp dervish. You do not get much more "casual" than simply playing the story line, and if you can not do that then good luck on farming anything with *any* build. You should get about 20-30k from the first time opening no-key chests and another 20-30k from rubies/sapphires from trade contracts. You can even currently afford a 55 monk just from that and there is nothing "hardcore" about *any* of that.

I'm not remotely a hardcore - my 130hp dervish was made on the free UW access weekend (that being my very first time there), my 55 monk and 55 necro are about 2 weeks old. I used to farm ettins, thorn stalkers, and griffons with a warrior or ele - plain old farming builds everyone else uses (eviscerate w/mo and a mist form ele). Up until nightfall with the trade contracts and no-key chests I never had more than 50k in storage (been playing now for 21 months). It is quite easy to afford a 130hp dervish quickly and as a casual player. That you do not enjoy playing one - that is a personal problem and has *nothing* to do with casual vs hardcore.

Abarra · May 01, 2007, 05:25 AM // 05:25

k to farm hard mode you need to finish the game with one character - that's the aim of some people just to finish the game and even that can be hard to afford now.

you need to get max armor which costs a lot more than the low level stuff you quoted. Go out in low level stuff at 20 and you're dead

hmm collectors stuff, well that's harder to get cos the collectors drops have been loot scaled too and they took long enough to get before.

A casual player doesn't start the game with the soul desire to set up a character purely for farming (which involves finishing the game) they like to play the game and enjoy it

when I got to consulate docks I had 5k from quests and drops. The armor there at the time came to 15k for the lot with the mats, that is prolly less now as some of the mats are going down in price, but it fluctuates and sometimes they are high.

Then if you're not lucky enough to get a good weapon drop which I wasn't I had to buy a weapon.

I had to buy skills, and you can only get some later in the game so you can't buy them all at the beginning so that costs more.

Then you need runes - as you say a bit cheaper but not everyone wants to be a dervish (and to unlock decent dervish skills you need to pvp or play the game with the dervish not just buy a few skills which you suggest.)

Already you can see that the casual player doesn't want to have to do this when before they could just nip outside and solo with their character and make enough for a skill or two in an hour.

This update is stated as helping the casual player it is not it is helping people who already have finished the game, have hard mode and can farm hard mode easily. It is these players that are picking on teh casual player as whiners because they can see that they still have some leetness at the moment and don't want it taking away. It is a selfish attitude mirrored in a lot of posts in all threads about this discussion.

A true count of dissatisfied customers cannot be made because any post that just expresses that the person is unhappy and is leaving is deleted.

I for one am very unhappy with the change as it directly affects me and many like me. I can now not just spend a few hours playing the game when I want to and hope to kit out my heroes and my character and gain all the skills I need and even cap all the elites I want as it is becoming too difficult to afford.

Money earned by the casual gamer is going down. Prices of skills, armor are the same. The minor runes the ones the starting player would use are going up at the moment I hope that will stop as the prices have rocketed on some of them. This is because blue drops are affected by loot scaling.)

Calling someone an idiot because they don't wish to fall into your farming catagory is just ignorant and abusive and shows that you have not grasped the problem at all.

you should not have to finish the game to be able to afford max armor, runes and skills which you need to play the game (catch 22)- remember all skills are not given to you straight away you can't just buy teh eight you need and be done with it, you have to adapt your build as you play, buying only those necessary on the way but it's more than eight.

The migratory habits of the leet farmer continue as ever as they flap their little wings between new area to new area while still revisiting UW and horde their cache of greens, ectos and golds in their Xunlai nests while the rest of us have our wings clipped further and are forced to scrabble in the dirt for the few dry morsels that come our way.

Lord Natural · May 01, 2007, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Yeah from trying solo uw runs post update, it really isn't worth it at all. First the number of chests was reduced, and now the drops as well. The runs barely pay for addmitance right now.

Just from playing through HM though I'm noticing a good number of drops, with the locked chests being reasonably kind. I suspect Tome prices will eventually drop off which will make it less profitable, but for the time being just playing through the campaign has netted me more than uw runs. If I had one request it would be to eliminate sour grapes from the locked chests. I mean come on, 1.5k per pick for an item not even worthy of hero fodder.

btw, what's with ecto prices dipping recently? If anything it seems as though ecto is dropping less. Is it dropping a ton in HM UW or something?

Buzzer · May 01, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

You shouldnt try any statistics in a period that festival items drop. Just wait for things to return to normal and start jotting the things down. As for getting 100% certain always 1 dead sword; statistics will always proove you wrong. This might have happened in this case, bad luck, but you got to live with it. Many people make claims about the new system, but all claims lack one essential ingredient, statistics.

Cupcakes are additional drops. They don't make a difference.

daraaksii · May 01, 2007, 08:36 AM // 08:36

2 words: Unident+trading. Boom, nerfed.

No more whining, thanks. All the things are okay with this changes.

DarkGanni · May 01, 2007, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Ecto drops are FINE, Yesterday's run: 5 ectos, today's 1st run: 1 ecto, next run: 1 ecto, last run: 4 ectos. It's just bad luck guys.